Hohner Orgaphon 24

Hohner Orgaphon 24

Příspěvekod matucha » 08 zář 2010 19:18

Me asi malokdo zna jako kytaristu, ale posledni dobou jsem chytil trochu nakupniho tlaku na kombo. Na jedny strane me stve, kdyz musim pouzivat (jenom) simulace, kdyz mi pridou ne uplne "charakterovy" veci na mix a pak rhodes/varhanky/basa/syntaky zni skrz kombo taky jinak. Premejslel sem o necem prtavym novym od Fendra, ale tu na me vykouk na aukru za malicky penize Hohner Orgaphon 24MH. Tak uz kvuli tomu nazvu, tak kvuli cene, lampam a obdobi vyroby sem to koupil. Dneska to prislo ;).

Ma to 10" reprak a sou tam ECL86 PCL805 PCL805. Vubec netusim, co tyhle elektronky znamenaj ohledne schaneni nahrad... to me treba este vypece ;).

Docela me prekvapilo ze to ma tak malej reprak v tak velky krabici. Nehraje to nijak silene nahlas, tak akorat se to dostane do nepohodlny hlasitosti a to je vsechno. Nijak extremne to nekresli, nakonec to bylo kombo pro varhanky ne pro metal, ale zkresleni tam samozrejme je a docela pekny. Rozhodne na rhodes nebo jazzbasse to bylo uplne prima. Vestaveny eq funguje moc pekne a da se tim promenit docela zasadne zvuk nastroje... prijemne i v pripade, ze uplne sundam basy a vytavim vejsky furt ten rhodes zni hezky. No sem zvedavej na dalsi zjisteni casem, ale zatim sem moc spokojenej s investovanejma 2500,- neni to zadny orezavatko ;).

Jo a asi je tam neco spatne s posilanim do pruziny, protoze nefunguje na nastroje, ale kdyz do toho prastim, tak ji slysim...

No neni to divna bedna? Mate neco podobnyho nebo ste nekdy neco podobnyho u nekoho zkouseli?
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Re: Divný komba/apáraty (dobry i spatny)

Příspěvekod c9000 » 08 zář 2010 19:30

hezký aparátek, viděl jsem, ho tam taky, dokonce jsem na něj měl zálusk ale vypadalo to hodně jako skok do neznáma, vzhledem k prakticky nulovejm informacím na netu. Něco přez to nahraj , a koukám že to má i výstup na nahrávaní. :wink: (ovšem to Hi FI je tam nejlepší)
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Re: Divný komba/apáraty (dobry i spatny)

Příspěvekod matucha » 08 zář 2010 20:13

No ja to vzhledem k cene risknul uz kvuli komentarum z http://reviews.harmony-central.com/revi ... Combo/10/1 . Je to teda k lehce jinymu modelu, ale vypada to, ze je tam stejnej reprak a stejnej zesilovac, mozna se to jenom lisi poctem vstupu nebo nejak tak.

Casem neco nahraju a poslu.

Product: Hohner 20MH Combo
Price Paid: UNKNOWN
Submitted 11/27/2007 at 01:28pm by m.raven

Features : 9
I was just gonna add a handfull of facts I've found out about a few years on. For one thing the wattage rating is hyperbole- as with most amps. My tech assures me it has about 8 watts of clean power. Which can still be quite loud, which in turn is the reason I've switched to a 3 Watts amp for home practice use. Next what I've said about the availability of ECL86 valves is simply not true: they are not at all readily available. And of course there is a dedicated SE class a amp for the Reverb- there always is. It's just that in a Fender a ECC83 does the job, while the Hohners all use ECL86 for the purpose.
Moreover the phase inverter circuit is of the paraphase variety, which had already been more than oldfashioned in the day. However it??s advantage lies in the fact that it produces assymetrical distortion without creating crossover distortion.

Sound Quality : 10
I still like its sound very much.

Reliability : 7
At one point the amp broke down. It was the coupling caps into the pentodes and the screen grid resistors who were to blame for this and had to be replaced. Sadly they took one the ECL86s with them. So if you want my advice: get them changed soon. Also get the old electrolythic caps replaced. Since then the amp works fault- and flawlessly. All this is pretty common with old amps. They just need to be serviced at some point- just like cars.

Customer Support : No Opinion
Well, Hohner are still around. Would be interesting if they could supply one with a schematic? I've traced it down myself at some point.

Overall Rating : 9
Well, for more info read my review at the bottom of this page.

Product: Hohner 20MH Combo
Price Paid: 135 Euro used
Submitted 11/08/2005 at 07:04am by honkyharp
Email: pewe67<at>gmx dot de

Features : 9
it is is a little tube amp which is made in 1965 to amplify organs from hohner. that's why it is called "orgaphon" but nevertheless it is good for guitarplaying also, as for playing harmonica (blues harp, what i'm doing. you have a really warm and gently clean sound. but when you crank the volume to the max., it gives you a crunchy chicagoblues sound, exspecially for the blues harp. it's spring reverb is genius and create the original sound of the sixties. the are to channels with one for 15mV input, one for 250 mV input. a tape for recording ore playing can also be put in, as two external speakers (4 ohm). it has a standby-modus. the only thing i miss , is a possibility to have more gain by a lower volume. but you can use a external booster ore something like that.

Sound Quality : 10
as i told before, i'm playing blues harp with it and therefor it is perfect. when i play with a band i kick the amp to the max (with it`s really loud 20 watts) and our guitarplayer is crying mercy. no a joke, but it's really loud enough to play along with drums and e-guitars.
and if you have the right mic (shure,astatic,hohner harp mic) you have a authentic chicagobluessound almost like little walter.

Reliability : 10
well, the amp is 40 vears old, so you have to treat it like an old girl.
but if you be normal with it, it is very resistent against physical influences. the one i use has still the first tubeset (telefunken) from 40 years ago! and it still works very well.

Customer Support : 5
for the reason of its age you maybe will have problems for support or pieces. but there are many communities about tube amps ore vintage amps in the web where you can get help.
sometimes you can get orgaphons or tubes for it at ebay

nomore warranty! *laugh*

Overall Rating : 9
iam playing for about 10 years blues harp and use also a fender blues junior, too. the hohner 20 mh is a underdog. unknown to the most guitarplayers and even so to the most harp players. and it is my fortune, so i could get it foe less money and i will never sell it anymore, becaus it is not only the great sound and name that fits perfect togehter with my harp, it also looks quite beautyfull and is everytime on stage a goodlookin.

Product: Hohner 20MH Combo
Price Paid: EUR (50,00) used
Submitted 08/14/2004 at 03:56am by m.raven

Features : 7
The German Hohner company were and are best known for their accordions and harmonicas; keyboarders appriciate the Hohner built Pianet and especially the Clavinet vintage electric pianos. Not so famous is their range of amplifiers. I hope this review is not gonna change that, `cause frankly: this here 20MH model (built in'66) is one of the most interesting bargain tube combos I've so far laid my hands on.
This little all tube 10" combo has got two completely independent input channels sporting a knob for Volume, Treble, Bass and Reverb each. Add to that a Reverb Master, a mains and a stand-by switch and that's all the controls you get here- except for a Reverb off remote switch socket.
The sockets are all funny DIN connectors, yet as long as you're only dealing with the three pin input sockets you'd only need to solder one extra lead with a three pin DIN plug on its far side (middle pin goes to ground, pin 1 is hot, pin 2 remains unconnected). Surprisingly this amp features 4/16 ohms output sockets, again funny DIN stuff. If you're intending to use those it might be worth getting them converted to phone plug jacks, also because those whimpy DIN speaker connections are okay for Hifi, but not for tube guitar amps. It's definitely worth trying to run this amp through a bigger cabinet, though, as this might result in quite a mighty tone, certainly different from the results you're getting with the built in 10" speaker.
The name "Orgaphon 20MH" suggests two things: that it was intended for organs and other keyboards (see above) and that it has a mere 20 Watts -RMS that is, not peak to peak. In other words: fully cranked you can expect about 40 Watts. This makes this amp a good match for
a) a practice amp
b) somebody playing clean at moderat levels (e.g. Jazz)
c) somebody who likes to enjoy the beauty of a fully craked amp
rather than solid state distortion.

This amplifier has got four inputs (two each into two channels), of which two are marked 15mV: these are the most sensitive hence result in maximum gain for your guitar. The other channel has got a 25mV and a 250mV input; here the 25mV input is good for guitar as well, while the 250mV input could be used with active instuments (including keyboards).

There actually is a third thing that name implies and that is that the amp's got Reverb (H is for "Hall", the German word for Reverb); I'm not too sure about this but it is possible that there are models named Orgaphon 20M and that would be Reverb-less units.

It would be great if the amp would also feature tremolo as this would make it the perfect sixties package- alas it wasn't meant to be.

Sound Quality : 10
Sound is where this little beauty excels. The clean sound is wonderfully round and warm and sounds especially good with my vintage Hofner Verithin when I'm trying once more to desperately get into Wes Montgomery territory. If I switch to the bridge PU and crank the vol into crunchy regions and beyond instant British Invasion is what I get- at non ear splitting levels. Don't get me wrong with that- I've had neighbours already complaining when I was trying to sound like Wes, so Ray Davies experiments are reserved for the rehearsal room.
Cranking Volume, Treble and Bass all to the max results in pretty hefty distortion for a non hi-gain amp, a good bit more then what my silverfaces have to offer.
The Eq's sound like shelving filters to me...a little lame. Might be worth converting them into Vox circuitry on one channel and Fender on the other. However they are okay. I like to set the Treble full on and the Bass about half ways usually.

And now: about the cat's whiskers- the Reverb. I've mentioned above that there are all in all three Reverb knobs; the channel Reverb knobs are Reverb INPUT controls (something that is also known as "Dwell") so you can control how hard the spring is being hit by the incoming signal. This means that the Reverb can sound a lot smoother than the typical built in Reverb with Fender amps does due to their pre-set reverb input gain.
Now if you want to add reverb to your clean guitar signal there are two controls you have to work because the more you crank the reverb input the louder the signal will be at a given value of the reverb master. And now the big extra: kick in lots of reverb, crank the reverb master to max and then turn down your channel volume- surpise! With a Fender the reverb would have been gone with the rest of the signal, however not so with the Hohner Orgaphon 20MH. The reverb volume is completely independent of the clean volume. You could even use it as an additional reverb only amplifier :)
The reverb sound of this amp is really spectacular and by far the nicest I've so far heard. However I've not yet had my chance on one of those old Ampegs and Gibsons...

There are ways to give your Fender XY-Reverb a smoother reverb sound, but unless you start to really f#+* around with the circuitry(which you shouldn't) there's no way you'll get to hear the reverb sound without the clean signal.

I'm not trying to say here that this amp is greater than a Fender, I'm just trying to make clear where it's different. And if you're like me you like differences as they add variety and richness to life and to guitar playing in particular.

Reliability : 10
Well, let me talk about the style of this amp first.
I quite like all this: those beautiful Fenders, be they Tweed, White or black Tolex. Voxes `n' Selmers, Gibsons, Ampegs, Gretsch amps...Oranges, Hiwatts, old Marshalls...

In nineteensixties Germany there had been three main instrument amplification manufacturers: Dynacord, Echolette and Hohner. Until Echolette became a part of Dynacord they had those lovely golden front panels, very showbusiness. Old Dynacords where usually a little gadgety and resembled old (50's) Selmers appearence-wise. Hohner however had a pretty sober look with grey vinyl and non sparkle grill cloth. They were -like- for professionals. Also quite sturdy in construction. So this was not a beginner model (like, say the Dynacord Twen). Mine even came with a real leather amp cover.
I've just had a quick glance inside and sure enough: the original electrolythics are still there. Man! Why does no-one ever change them in time? Still no hum with this amp and everything up and working. Talk about good construction.
The tubes also look old. They're actually: 2x ECC83 (pre-amps) 3x ECL 86- these are halve triode, halve pentode (like a EL84 and halve a ECC83 together in on tube), not a rare tube by the way, as they are being used for basic Hifi tube amps today. It's funny there's three of them; two form the power amp (one triode presumably works as a mixing stage, the other as a PI), the third ECL 86 sits next to the reverb master togehter with a transformer...? Could it be that the Reverb runs through a separate single ended class A power amp?
I should get me a schemo.

Customer Support : No Opinion
I wouldn't even try. Better look at www.el-me-se.de

Overall Rating : 10
I really quite like this little amp. Ever since I bought my first bargain low wattage sixties amp at ebay I'm hooked. This first one was a WEM ER-15 and I`ve payed a mere 30?. Now (just a few months later) they go for 200,- and more, even though I've never written a review, so somebody else must have spread the secret. By now I also own a Dynacord Jazz and a Dynacord KV12 and they're all nice- and somehow similar sounding. They're all very basic, too without any effects.
Hence reverb is one of the pro's of this Hohner amp, the other being its comparatively thicker distortion. I also appreciate its sturdier construction. And it's the only one of the bunch that sports a stand-by switch.
If I had to choose only one out of them four it would definitely be the Hohner.
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Re: Divný komba/apáraty (dobry i spatny)

Příspěvekod delay » 08 zář 2010 21:03

Pěkný. Nezmínil jsi teda wattáž, ale zkusil bych ještě pár korun investovat do nějakýho repra, třeba výkonově adekvátní Celestion. Mylsím že by z toho mohl jít zajmavej retro vintage zvuk :wink:

PS: Cena je tajemství?
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Re: Divný komba/apáraty (dobry i spatny)

Příspěvekod Kermitak » 08 zář 2010 21:13

Rekl bych ze ne, kdyz ji napsal :]
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Re: Divný komba/apáraty (dobry i spatny)

Příspěvekod delay » 08 zář 2010 22:34

A jo, sundávám brejle 8) - :shock:
Fajn cena.
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Re: Divný komba/apáraty (dobry i spatny)

Příspěvekod matucha » 09 zář 2010 00:56

Wataz ti nevim, ale asi to bude 24W... ale ted nevim jestli RMS, peak nebo buhvi co. Kazdopadne mi to nepride zadnej teror, jak by se 24W zdalo. Trochu legrace s citacema:

Witam na mojej aukcji.
Mam dziś do zaproponowania kultowy niemiecki piec pełna lampa Hohner Orgaphon 24 MH. 4 wejścia o różnych czułościach (gitara, klawisze, mikrofon, odtwarzacze muzyki), wyjście liniowe, wyjścia na dodatkowe głośniki. Lampy mocy PCL 805 oraz ECL 86 są zupełnie nowe. Sprzęt po generalnym przeglądzie w serwisie. Przedni panel jest lekko wgnieciony w centralnej części ale to w niczym nie przeszkadza. Założony jest głośnik 12” co znacznie poprawiło jego brzmienie. Polecam kolekcjonerowi lub koneserom brzmienia lampowego vintage. Poniżej zamieszczam oryginalny opis techniczny sprzętu.

HOHNER
Orgaphon 24 MH
Teiltransistorierter Koffermischverstärker
Einige technische Daten:
Ausgangsleistung: 18 Watt Dauer / 24 Watt Musik-Leistung
Übertragungsbereich: 40 Hz .... 18 kHz
Technischer Aufbau: 2 Vorverstärker, 1 Summenverstärker,
1 Hallverstärker, Gegentakt-B-Endstufe
Röhrenbestückung: 1 x ECL 86, 2 x PCL 805
Transistoren: 3 x BC 109 C
Dioden: 5 x BY 250
Eingänge: 2 getrennt regelbar
Klangkorrektur: für jeden Eingang Bass und Discant
Nachhall: Federhall, getrennt regelbar für jeden Eingang
und zum Summensignal regelbar
Lautsprecher: Breitbandsystem 10“, Typ PM 245 / 15 Ω
Erscheinungsjahr: um 1965


God lille forstærker med en udgangseffekt på 20 W.

Består af 2 stk. forforstærkere (en til hver kanal), en rumklangsforstærker og en udgangsforstærker.

En blanding mellem rør og transistorer, idet den er forsynet med 1 stk. ECL 86 rør og 2 stk. PCL 805 rør. Forsynet med 3 stk. BC 109 C transistorer og 5 stk. dioder BY 250.

Fantastisk så klar den er i lyden, også ved de dybe toner, i forhold til det er en 10" højtaler. Det er formentlig det lukkede rum som giver den bløde lyd.
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Re: Divný komba/apáraty (dobry i spatny)

Příspěvekod delay » 09 zář 2010 08:05

100 Kč / Watt je super :)
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Re: Divný komba/apáraty (dobry i spatny)

Příspěvekod kexik » 09 zář 2010 09:05

je to 18w. 805ky pouzivat v koncaku je divne ale urcite ich zozenies. zbytok mi pride uplne normal. ze je to velke a ma male repro je vyhoda, bude to mat sytejsi spodok jak male komba. HROZNE vela sa da spravit vymenou repraka, pripadne si tam prirob vystup na externe repro (ak tam nie je) a kup nejaku zaujimavu bednu. kludne aj 4x12, je uplne jedno ze ju zapojis na slaby koncak, ona sa prejavi .)
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Re: Divný komba/apáraty (dobry i spatny)

Příspěvekod matucha » 09 zář 2010 09:35

Vystup to ma, takze to by slo... menit reprak v tomhle nehodlam, pokud by se nejak nepokazil, ale s tim externim boxem je to zajimavej napad.

Este me zarazilo, ze ten vnitrek ty bedny je vlastne uplne hola drevotriska/drevostepka a ze tam neni zadny tlumeni, skoro me to laka vyzkouset tam dat nejakej rockwool ;)
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Re: Divný komba/apáraty (dobry i spatny)

Příspěvekod kexik » 09 zář 2010 09:47

matucha píše:Vystup to ma, takze to by slo... menit reprak v tomhle nehodlam, pokud by se nejak nepokazil, ale s tim externim boxem je to zajimavej napad.

Este me zarazilo, ze ten vnitrek ty bedny je vlastne uplne hola drevotriska/drevostepka a ze tam neni zadny tlumeni, skoro me to laka vyzkouset tam dat nejakej rockwool ;)

ak je to polootvorene, tak tlmenim tomu len pokazis charakter. navyse zhorsis chladenie. komba sa netlmia
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Re: Divný komba/apáraty (dobry i spatny)

Příspěvekod matucha » 09 zář 2010 16:41

Oprava... s rhodesem umi byt extremne nahlas, au! Ta barva me bavi hodne... zadny meneni repraku nebude ;)
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Re: Divný komba/apáraty (dobry i spatny)

Příspěvekod matucha » 10 zář 2010 14:43

Zapojil jsem do hohnera rhodese (mkI) a squier jazzbase a nahral to jak CMV563+M7 tak C414.

Je tam krasne slyset, jak CMV je zamereny hodne na stredy a pusobi rozmazlejc, coz funguje pekne na stredni a vyssi polohy rhodese, ale treba basa z nej neleze tak definovana jako z C414. Je to taky vlastne poprvy, co slysim tu c414 jako svetlejsi mikrak - viz sum z komba na vejskach. Treba na hlase (kterej tady v tech ukazkach nemam) zni cmv svetlejc, protoze ma plnejsi stredy a stredovejsky, pritom u C414 sou propadlejsi a pak ma nejakej ten vzduch az hodne nahore, coz pusobi u hodne veci vyzehlene. Moc se mi libi definice basu u ty C414, znovu se mi potvrzuje, ze sila toho mikraku dole ve spektru je jednoznacna.

Oba ty mikraky to kombo interpretujou podle sebe, ve zkutecnosti a v prostoru zni min placate, ale to bych musel pridat dalsi mikraky, abych to zachytil a to se mi ted nechtelo resit.

Je to natoceny v ruznym nastaveni tonovejch korekci, od dunivyho tupyho po vyvejskovanej zvuk. Ruzny polohy. Prominte mi moje hrani na basu, nejsem basak.

Co me na tom bavi u rhodese je to, ze se zbavim typickyho problemu linkovyho rhodese, kterej zni casto strasne tluste a moc ciste. Blbe se pak z nej dela vec, ktera ma sedet uplne dobre do mixu a to i kdyz pouzivam jeho vnitrni tonovou clonu (nejakej pasivni hipass). Stejne se pak proste peru s tim, kde ten rhodes uz je moc tenkej a kde zahlcuje zbytecne vsechno. Z tehle nahravek mam ten pocit, ze to zkresleni a komprese spolecne s tonovym nastavenim na ostro funguje fakt pekne. Jasne je z toho pak hodne zabarvena verze, ale pusobi to spravne, asi kvuli tomu, ze to ma clovek nauceny ze starsich nahravek.

No este by to chtelo kytaru...

orgaphon_rhodes_cmv563m7.mp3



orgaphon_rhodes_c414.mp3



orgaphon_jazzbass_cmv563m7.mp3



orgaphon_jazzbass_c414.mp3
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Re: Divný komba/apáraty (dobry i spatny)

Příspěvekod matucha » 10 zář 2010 14:53

tyjo to se nedaj prilozeny soubory dat primo do prehravani??? nebo neco zas nechapu? ;)
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Re: Divný komba/apáraty (dobry i spatny)

Příspěvekod c9000 » 10 zář 2010 17:41

Ten tenkej zvuk rhodese je danej nastavením tonebars, když poslouchám ty ukázky, tak slyšim, že to máš naladěný do takovejch těch cinkavejch vejšek a ostrýho středu (ladily se tak mkII), nastavením se dá udělat zvuk pěkně kulatej a řekl bych že dost hutnej ale zas to chce prohánět EQ, jelikož to není tolik konkrétní a musí se přidat někde na 1khz a vejš pro srozumitelnost. (pak je taky dobrý skusit hrát s výkem a bez něj , má to vliv na zvuk).

Jinak by něbylo špatný dát k těm ukázkám i linkovej výstup nástrojů, tam by ten rozdíl byl nejmarkantnější.
Cimbál, Harmonium a Vozembouch.
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