Tak panove,co myslite, ze je v soucasnosti to NEJ v teto oblasti? Mam na mysli hlavne SW, ale muzete i hw moduly atd.
Docela by me zajimalo jestli nekdo zkousel treba oba The Grand (1,2)od Steinberga a mohl tedy podat zpravu o tom, jake jsou rozdily mezi nimi,ktery je lepsi? Co treba NI Acoustik piano? Jake jsou vase kone?
Pre klaviristu, citliva to otazka. Pre mna asi Kurzweil K2500 charakterom zakladneho zvuku. Poslednu dobu casto pouzivam trojvrstvove piano s Yamahy S90, s ktorym som ako tak spokojny.
The Grand som skusal, ale iba jednotku a neoslovil ma.
Tazko povedat co je pre mna naj, zatial som nenasiel moj ideal, ale rad si precitam nazory druhych, ci nasli to prave orechove.
Ono dost zavisi , ci chces robit klasiku .. alebo pop .. Steinbergove Grandy su super .. Ale lepsie zneju GIGA sample podla mna .. Mne sa velmi paci Bossendorfer .. Co sa tyka popoveho klaviru , pisu ze kral je White Grand .. neskusal som ho .. neviem potvrdit ..
cyril:Mel jsem na mysli vytvorit neco jako uceleny seznam toho nejlepsiho a k tomu prave pripojit i treba na co, podle vas, se konktretne se hodi. Jinak co se tyka pouziti, tak me zajima klavir co nejcistsi.
Mam zkusenost s The grand 2 a jednicku jsem nezkousel , takze by me zajimal subjektivni (jak jinak)nazor nekoho tady, kdo jiz treba oboji nejaky cas pouzival.
A co to NI acoustik piano? Poslouchal jsem jen ukazky a bylo velmi dobre,ale asi prece jen ne tak jako The grand 2,ale uz je to dyl tak nevim.
GIGA sample snad brzy zkusim.
Joo, tohle by do zacatku nemuselo bejt spatny ,) Nekde jsem mimochodem slysel vychvalovat Emperor do nebes (zeby tady na ezone?)...
price: $450 / bit-rate: 24-BIT / format: Giga / media: DVD
All 8 top-class piano libraries by PMI (>20 GB) in 1 magic 7 DVD bundle for an amazing low price! Available in Giga, Kontakt, EXS24 and Halion formats.
The OLD LADY an incredible Model 1923 Steinway D
PMI EMPEROR a Model 290SE Imperial Grand Bosendorfer
PMI GRANDIOSO BOSENDORFER 290 (full version), the 5 stars awarded superb PMI piano library
PMI GRANDIOSO STEINWAY D (Classic version),
PMI POP/ROCK YAMAHA C7 CONCERT PIANO (Ambient),
POST ESTONIA CONCERT GRAND (Full version),
PMI PIANO SUITE: Orchestral Instruments, Steinway D, Prepared Piano (Full version),
PMI HISTORIC KEYBOARDS: Fortepiano, French & Flemish Harpsichords and Virginal
Total value: over $ 875.
Order PIANO MAGIC in our on-line store.
BUY NOW for just $ 450!
Unique features of PMI pianio libraries:
- Sympathetic resonance;
the singing of the non-struck resonating strings(+)
- Sostenuto and softpedal; (+)
- IR-based ambience and stereo imaging;
- IR-based body resonance;
- Seemingly unlimited dynamic range and responsiveness;
- 24bit samples for pristine audio quality;
- Total freedom of tuning;
- Surround Sound Mixing
+ Kontakt 2 Scripts
System Requirements and updates: Look at the system specifications before you buy.
About the libraries:
This library brings you an incredible Bösendorfer 290 SE as the most realistic sample library available today. The piano has a huge dynamic range, with very subtle pianissimo and thunderous fortissimi. 12 recorded velocity layers, with 12 separate sustain pedal down layers and release triggered samples.
This library brings you an amazing Model 1923 Steinway D grand piano. Sampled with 10 recorded velocity layers with 10 separate sustain pedal down layers and release triggered samples.
The recorded pianos for OLD LADY and EMPEROR were equipped with an advanced computer operated playback mechanism that was designed by mathematician, scientist and inventor Wayne Stahnke. The mechanism actually operates the piano keys and pedals with over 1.000 steps accuracy for inverse hammer velocity. The Stancke computer system enabled Amsterdam based sample library producer Michiel Post to capture each velocity layer for this library with absolute velocity levels. These levels guarantee a totally even response across the whole keyboard for all velocities. The programming of this piano is designed to take full advantage of the possibilities of the new GigaStudio 3 software. This results in more programmed velocity layers. The Emperor has 24 recordings for each key. These recordings were further divided in 64 velocity groups, each a slight variation of the underlying velocity layer sample.
These libraries use a new programming to create the sustain pedal effect. Traditionally, conventional piano libraries use the sustain pedal as an ON-OFF switch, which has to be pressed before a note is played. These libraries lacked the possibility to re-pedal as in a real concert grand piano. Now this barrier has been broken. The PMI EMPEROR & OLD LADY libraries allow the user to press the sustain pedal at any time while playing notes or chords to start the sympathic resonance of the non-struck strings. There is a choice of convolution using the impulse response of the body resonance of the actual piano and a programming technique that adds the recorded resonance as an extra layer. GigaPulse (the convolution engine in GigaStudio 3) is also used for recreation of the original acoustics of the piano hall where the pianos were recorded.
* Special features for GigaStudio 3 and Kontakt 2: Body resonance for reproduction of the true body resonance upon sustain pedal use, Hall resonance, true re-pedalling, sustain pedal triggered pedal noise etc.
This Bösendorfer library provides the greatest possible control during the softest pianissimo, through crescendos to the reserves of power needed for the loudest fortissimo. By utilizing new technology to optimise the mechanical performance of the action, Post Musical Instruments has created a product which leaves the pianist in total control of dynamic response, timbre and touch. PMI has finally captured a grand piano with "breath". They recorded both dry samples and ambient samples. The dry samples are recorded fairly close to the piano strings. The wet samples are recorded at a distance so that the hall acoustic is captured. You can experience a concert hall type of sound and control the amount of ambience until you play it absolutely dry.
Several Gigabytes of samples, up to 16 recorded layers of velocity, separate sustain pedal up and down samples, multiple release samples... separate "dry" and "wet" samples that can be mixed for ultimate ambience control. 24 bit samples, real-time sustain pedal, increased dynamics, smoother velocity response and GigaPulse body resonance make this library your ultimate sampled piano!
PLEASE NOTE: You will need at least 1 GB of free RAM when playing the GRANDIOSO libraries from a RAM-based soft-sampler platform. When operating the samples on a disk streaming sampler (Giga, Kontakt with DFD, EXS24 with Virtual memory on and HALION) you need 512 MB.
We recorded the best grand piano we could find. This particular instrument is in premium condition, a Steinway model D3 with serial number 393210 which was built in 1965. It was fully refurbished by Steinway Hamburg in 1999. This piano served the Rotterdam 'DOELEN' concert hall for several decades, where hundreds of famous musicians, from Claudio Arrau to the Rolling Stones, performed for live audiences and broadcast concerts.
We captured up to 6 articulations (PPP, PP, P, MF, F, FF and FFF) for sustain pedal up, sustain pedal down and 4 articulations for the release triggered samples. We recorded the samples using the finest digital equipment available. Prism Sound, a 24-bit ProTools TDM Mix+ system and Waves processing was used. We have mapped up to 16 levels of velocity, true multiple velocity release layers, ultimate staccato, and sustained pedal-down samples with a carefully chosen amount of resonance.
The library has 5 GB of samples. The end result was tested by several concert pianists, who helped us develop a sampled instrument which could meet their highest expectations. There is no doubt in our minds that this is the best sampled piano ever.
This Yamaha C7 library provides the greatest possible control during the softest pianissimo, through crescendos to the reserves of power needed for the loudest fortissimo. By utilizing new technology to optimise the mechanical performance of the action, Post Musical Instruments has created a product which leaves the pianist in total control of dynamic response, timbre and touch. PMI has captured the final pop grand piano. We recorded both dry samples and ambient samples. 8 GB of 24 bits samples, up to 16 recorded layers of velocity, separate sustain pedal up and down samples, multiple release samples... and best: dry and wet samples that can be mixed for absolute ambience control.
Estonia Concert Grand piano is a multi-velocity level chromatically sampled piano of the highest realism! The Grand Piano of ESTONIA has an unique SOUND which comes from the superior spruce timber that grows only in extremely cold areas. The large 9' instrument was sampled with multiple velocity layers and sustain pedal sampled individually. There is even a multiple velocity layer release layer for ultimate realism! The instrument was sampled with 4 layers of velocity (both pedal up and pedal down) also 4 layers of velocity were used to capture the release key action of this piano. The 15 instrument variations give the options of playing the piano with sustained notes only (!), no sustained notes, no release layer, special 'dark' settings etc….All white keys are sampled (55 for each layer).
Back to top of page
This dynamic library features: Flemish Harpsichord, Frensh Harpsichord, a Virginal and a unique Fortepiano. The harpsichords have been sampled so that you can get both manuals separately and combined. You can even use a key switch to change the registration (from upper manual only, to lower manual to both at the same time) while playing. All instruments are captured with their release sounds, giving them an unbelievable realistic quality.
The Sampled Fortepiano
Making a beautiful instrument more available by Howland Auchincloss
Bartolomeo Cristofori (1655-1732) invented the piano during the period 1680-1720, but its acceptance, especially in his native Italy, was very slow, and it is said that he was very disappointed. However, in Germany and Austria very active development took place, and by 1770 there was an instrument, now universally referred to as the "fortepiano," sometimes as the "Viennese fortepiano," which was enthusiastically accepted in the general area of Austria and southern Germany. By far the most important aspect of the subject today is that Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven wrote many compositions for the fortepiano, and some of these compositions were for their students and therefore vary greatly in technical difficulty. Almost surely, anybody who has taken piano lessons for a few years or more has worked on one of these works, but, almost always they were playing a modern piano, not a fortepiano. In the period 1770-1790 the steel frame had not yet been devised, and the metallurgy of string manufacture was different than in the mid-19th century. These factors combined to make string tension much reduced. In order to avoid excessive force on the string, the weight of the hammers was much less. The end result of these limitations and of the builders' adjustments to them was, somewhat surprisingly, that the action of most fortepianos was very light. The tone was clear and even penetrating, but the sustain was much less. To like the fortepiano today, even if one's pleasure is limited to listening to recordings, is to take a step backwards in time. After about 1800 the fortepiano was gradually replaced almost as completely as it had replaced the harpsichord. Essentially, although the term "fortepiano" was still sometimes used, the actual instrument came more and more to resemble the modern piano. By 1860 the American Steinway Piano is said to have had virtually all of the essential features of the modern piano. It is not a great exaggeration to say the the fortepiano disappeared in the same way that the harpsichord and the lute disappeared. Even more unfortunately, the revival of interest in "early music" at the turn of the 20th century did not include the fortepiano. Major credit for the return of the fortepiano to the concert stage and to recordings belongs to a relatively small group of scholars, performers, builders and restorers in Europe and in America dating from the 1970s. Malcolm Bilson, now at Cornell University, was the driving force in Norht America. However, the price of a new fortepiano reconstruction is high, the instrument requires frequent tuning, and the number of keys is considerably less than is the case for the modern piano. It is therefore not satisfactory as a general-purpose piano. As a result, it is still difficult for most pianists, amateur or professional, to gain personal experience with the very special qualities of this instrument which was so popular in Vienna more than 200years ago. With the present disk there are now two available sampled fortepianos, and we no longer can say that the acoustic instrument is indispensable to the ability of a pianist attempting to create the sound of a Haydn sonata on the fortepiano. Certainly, the acoustic instrument will be seen as essential for the concert hall. The Boldersounds Fortepiano (www.boldersounds.com) has been available since 1999 and originated with a sampling session in 1997. The fortepiano used was the personal instrument of Malcolm Bilson, a noted teacher, scholar, performer who helped me arrange the sampling session. The sample editing was done by Dennis Burns of Boldersounds after some less than satisfactory efforts by me. The instrument was a copy of a fortepiano by Anton Walter, one of the best builders of the 18th century. The fortepiano used for the present disk is also a Walter piano, but in this case the instrument is a restored original. The sampling and editing were done in 2001, almost 4 years later. The later efforts benefit at a minimum from improved technology and also, probably, from the availability of a better instrument, but rather than look at the two disks as competitive with eachother, I would urge that they are complementary, because the fortepiano was not a standardized instrument. Together with the Post harpsichords and virginal they get the Gigasampler owner off to a good start with 18th century keyboard instruments. A frequent initial reaction to the sound of the fortepiano is that it is less beautiful than that of a fine modern concert grand piano. I believe that such a reaction will usually be changed if the player listens to good recordings. The clear sound and reatively short sustain of the fortepiano tends to favor the special elements of style in the music of Haydn and Mozart. The sound is different but not inferior. Another complaint often voiced is that a sampled piano is not (and probably cannot be) the sonic equal of the acoustic instrument as it was at the time of sampling. This is part of the general dictum that live music is better than recorded music. One answer to this complaint is that the sampled fortepiano is good enough to be an alternative to the modern piano, which is simply an "incorrect" instrument for playing music written long before it was available. Each player will make his or her judgment about what kind of "piano library" they want to have. Malcolm Bilson has told me that there are many fine pianos of both 18th and 19th centuries which deserve attention, and we can be optimistic that a library started now will grow in the years to come. There is one aspect of the fortepiano for which there is at present no simple way of copying at present. This is the very light action of the fortepiano previously mentioned, which facilitates extremely rapid playing. I have yet to find a digital keyboard which has an action comparable to a fortepiano. Therefore, if a friend was buying a MIDI controller, I would advise them to select one with a light action if their main enthusiasm was 18th century music.
A unique collection of Steinway D Concert grand and other orchestral percussion instruments. The main instrument is a Steinway D Concert Grand (the largest size Steinway makes) sampled with multiple velocity layers and sustain pedal sampled individually.
System requirements and notes
4 GB of Free Hard Disk Space for each piano,
DVD drive. Each piano ships on a single DVD.
Recommended system: 1.0 GHz (MAC) / 2 GHz (PC), at least 1.000 MB of free RAM, recommended OS: Windows XP/Mac OSX.
Available formats: Kontakt 1.5, Kontakt 2, Giga 2 and GigaStudio 3, HALION, EXS 24.
One of these softsamplers: HALION 2 or higher, Kontakt 1.5 or higher, GigaStudio 2.5 or higher or EXS24 MkII. These formats are supported on Mac and PC programs via RTAS, HTDM (Mac), AudioSuite, VST, DirectX (Win), MAS (Mac), and Audio Units (Mac).
Native sampler formats include Tascam GigaStudio (versions 2 and 3), Halion. EXS and Native Instruments Kontakt 1.53 AND 2. GigaStudio 3 is adding IR's based reverberation, GigaPulse body resonance and ReWire support. Kontakt 2 is adding sympathetic Resoance and sostenuto and soft pedals. The IR's and extra noises are also available as a free download in the update section.
*Notes on formats: HALION and EXS.The programming for these platforms includes the real-time re-pedalling, special release layers and more features. To be able to use the IR-based features you need to route the piano through your own convolution application (Altiverb, PristineSpaces, Waves, SIR or others). The extra noises upon sustain pedal are not supported at this time. EXS: Real time pedalling is not possible in EXS at this moment.
You can download the latest program updates in our on-line: support section . Simply select your sampler format and search for your library. More programs will be added to this database on a regular basis so bookmark this section for future updates.
To compare this product with the other available pianos from PMI you can visit the Product Comparison Page.
You can download free playable demo files (176 MB for the Old Lady and 310 MB for the EMPEROR) on the DEMO Page. There are fully functional demo files for Giga 2, Kontakt and HALION. The Giga 2 version uses 16 bits samples, Kontakt and HALION use 24 bits samples. These demo files are also available on a CD-ROM in the on-line store.
PMI is a leading provider of piano sample libraries for professional and consumer musical markets. PMI has fifteen years of expertise in sample recording and signal processing to radically improve perceived sound quality of sampled instruments. PMI's award-winning sample libraries are utilized in the creation of many of the world's most popular music, movie soundtracks, and multimedia titles. Previous products cover musical instruments as concert grand pianos, church organs, harpsichords, historic keyboards, accordions and others.
Total value: over $ 875.
Order PIANO MAGIC in our on-line store.
BUY NOW for just $ 450!
Back to top of page
Sympathetic resonance: the holy grail of piano sampling…
"And all strings
Which are touched in Love
Mechtild of Magdeburg (8 centuries before Steinway made it's first grand piano)
PMI finally has the technology to make accurate reproduction of the sympathetic resonance of the non-struck piano strings possible. By using scripting technology this very important effect that was missing in sampled piano libraries until now has become “unleashed”.
The principle behind sympathetic resonance is simple enough: When a key is pressed on an acoustic piano, the strings for the keys which are already pressed vibrate sympathetically. The fundamental and overtones of the struck string generate vibrations in the corresponding non-struck strings that start to "sing".
Every note played is going to excite all the other open strings and change their overtones very dynamically. Previously every note on a sampled piano always used to stand alone and play the same every time.
The resonating of non-struck strings is called sympathetic resonance and adds the brilliance and life in a real piano. Sympathetic resonance in PMI piano libraries is achieved by using scripts in Native Instruments new Kontakt 2 flagship sampler. A set of resonating string samples is "activated" by a piece of artificial intelligence that reproduces the sympathetic resonance phenomena with extreme accuracy.
For this effect 2 components are used: - one is for the sympathetic resonance of the non-struck strings using a script that triggers the resonances; - one is for the body resonance of the piano. A convolution engine excites a resonance model of the ENTIRE piano harp, exciting the string resonances that have a harmonic relationship with the keys struck. Pushing through a "chromatic" piano body impulse, the tone exciting the impulse will determine which of the chromatic resonances will have impact on the sound. If you play an "A" you only hear resonances related to "A" up its overtone series. The frequency components which go "un-excited" will simply disappear underneath the overall sound and be unnoticeable.
The sympathetic resonance is using Kontakt 2’s unique scripting possibilities. These scripts (like the one pictured below) have an interface which allows ultimate control over each generated harmonic as well as integration with sustain, sostenuto and soft pedals. The script below was created by Olivier Frappier (www.audiolivepro.com).
Convolution-based and recorded “sustain” resonance
All ‘pedal down’ and ‘release/staccato resonance’ elements are created with convolution impulse models (i.e. more than half of the traditional digital samples can be left unused!) and with traditional sample based recordings. Overall responsiveness is greatly improved. The traditional limitations of sample based pedal dynamics, continuously varying note release have been transcended, with far greater dynamic accuracy, playability and sonic detail.
An amazing dynamic range and responsiveness is achieved by using multiple velocity layers. The Gold Bundle pianos (EMPEROR and OLD LADY) use up to 26 recorded dynamic nuances for each key! Instead of sampling a piano by capturing a single overtone series for that strike velocity and then using a lowpass filter for lower velocities, PMI piano libraries have all velocity variations recorded. The use of Low-pass filtering does not capture the way the overtone series really progresses with strike velocity and also does not capture degrees of sound from the transient of the hammer strike, which is the loudest part of the sound. The big multi-strike sample sets created by PMI are giving an incredible smooth response that is almost un-distinguishable from a real piano. This ensures a seemingly unlimited dynamic range and responsiveness.
IR-based ambience and stereo imaging Convolution technology makes it possible to “sample” a room or hall, a microphone or even an effect processor and “impose” that sample on other sounds. This is done by using Impulse Responses. An Impulse Response captures the true acoustics of a performance space. Convolution reverbs, also known as "sampling reverbs", let's you put any audio signal inside an acoustic space of your choosing, such as different concert halls, a performance club, a soundstage, a church, an intimate room or other spaces. It also allows precise control over an instrument's position on stage and the listener perspectives in the audience. Kontakt 2 comes with a convolution unit that can be placed on the output channel or inside an instrument for flexible control over the ambience and stereo imaging. Impulse responses from microphones “impose” the typical characteristics of these microphones on any other signal. This enables the user to –say- change a piano recorded with an AB set of omni-directional tube microphones into a piano sound recorded trough a MS-set of condenser microphones. Impulses from existing hardware processors “impose” the exact effect as the actual hardware effect would do. The creative possibilities are limited by the imagination of the user only!
24 bit samples are used for pristine audio quality. All PMI piano libraries are available in true 24 bits audio quality. The increased bit depth results in a much wider dynamic range than the 16 bit cd-audio quality previously used in sampling.
Total freedom of tuning
One of the most important aspects of piano technology is perhaps the tuning of the instrument. Piano tuning is like a science of it’s own and piano tuners have years of experience and knowledge that were used while sampling PMI’s pianos. Additionally NI Kontakt2 offers extreme new possibilities. Non-traditional tunings are as simple as selecting them from the tuning menu. Individual tuning systems can be set up using either a special script or using a graphic editor. These two options combined with PMI’s extreme attention to every detail during the recording process ensure that PMI pianos are always “in tune” with your music.
Sostenuto and softpedal
All 3 pedal are now fully implemented. Having all the pedals available at all times gives the pianist complete control over his performance.
Také souhlasím s tím, že každý styl hudby potřebuje svůj specifický zvuk piana, či klavíru, ale nejen to......, i zručnost a styl každého hudebníka potřebuje jinou barvu nástroje.
Já osobně jsem klávesák a věnuji se spíše pomalé hudbě, takové oddechové a používám The Grand Piano1 od Steinberga a jsem celkem spokojený, i když bych rád někde sehnal zvuk Steinway piána, pro mě má takovou velmi zvláštní barvu.
Také to hodně záleží na tom, jak si pohrajete s akustikou nahrávky. I když je fakt, můj kámoš má nějakou novou Clavinovu s fakt dobrým, piánem, a když jsem od něj již dvakrát odcházel, nechtělo se mi pak týden sáhnout do kláves....
Také by mě zajímal zvuk The Grand2....
Nevím, jak daleko pokročilo Giga Piano, ale měl jsem ho asi před dvěma roky nainstalované a nějak mi k srdci nepřirostlo - tím však nechci říci, že by snad bylo špatné.
A k těm ukázkám na Netu - to je sice všechno pěkné, ale jste schopni pak také takové nahrávky, jako je prezentována na Netu?
uplne suhlasim. inak rad by som stretol aspon jedneho cloveka, ktoreho TheGrand oslovil. Najma ak vezmeme fakt, kolko mega ma tento plugin a pritom hra horsie ako 8MB klavire v niektorych HW syntiakoch.
Mě The Grand Piano1 oslovilo a používám ho, i když vím, že to není nic super. Když to piáno vkládám do skladeb, myslím že tam sedí. Nepoužívám ho bez efektů, většinou ho mám jemně nahallované.....
Měl jsem možnost vyzkoušet mnoho HW i normálních syn?áků, ale to, co píšete není pravda. Možná někdy ve středech mají zajímavější barvu, ale piano má 8 oktáv a právě nahoře a dole se pak pozná kvalita samplovaného nástroje - tedy piána.
Povedal by som, ze na to dosli aj vyrobcovia, a sustredia sa hlavne na vrch a spodok. Hore a dole, je to pocuvatelne uz aj na samohrajkach.
Prave preto ja si vsimam hlavne stred. Napriklad GEM Realpiano, ospevovany to stroj, mi znie v stredovej casti absolutne chemicky a monotonne.
Tak isto velakrat sa mi to stalo u Yamahy, hore-dole dost slusne, ale stred nic moc.
To je pravda, len ked uz to znie bez pedalu umelo, zbytocne tam bude simulacia fyzikalnych vlastnosti klaviru. Len s tou umelinou vytvoria podobne chovanie doznievania, cize kazdy ton doznieva v inej dlzke, rozzozvucuju sa struny harmonickych tonov, ozvucna doska a pod.
Ale ked to je od zaciatku umele, tak ta omacka okolo toho to len zhorsi.
Preto ked neviem aky solovy klavir pouzit, vzdy siahnem po 2500ke, ktora aj ked nema tu omacku, ale ma charakter plneho klavirneho zvuku.
Kdo je online