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peteness
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Příspěvek od peteness » 23 bře 2008 22:00

bassline píše:prave som chcel napisat ze pry synthoch je prave na to ten filter keytrack aby basa basovala na vsetkych tonoch rovnako
keytrack ma jinou funkci. Umoznuje s rostouci vyskou tonu vetsi otevreni low pass filtru. Takze i kdyby keytrack mel nekde extremni nastaveni az takove, ze by to bylo poznat na par sousednich basovych tonech, stejne by byl rozdil jen v ořezání sezhora. Problémové sub frekvence by zůstaly beze změny.

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bassline
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Příspěvek od bassline » 23 bře 2008 22:36

peteness: ja som nehovoril o ziadnych subbasach...ked mas nastaveny konstantny cutoff, basa ti na roznych tonoch nebasuje rovnako. A prave keytrackingom filtru sa da nastavit cutoff tak, aby sa rovnomerne posuval s kazdou vyssou notou, co ma za nasledok ze noty basuju rovnako, lebo nedochadza ku zmene harmonickych vo zvuku nastroja..

Brooklyn / juanita juarez
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Příspěvek od Brooklyn / juanita juarez » 24 bře 2008 00:15

peteness píše:
bassline píše:prave som chcel napisat ze pry synthoch je prave na to ten filter keytrack aby basa basovala na vsetkych tonoch rovnako
keytrack ma jinou funkci. Umoznuje s rostouci vyskou tonu vetsi otevreni low pass filtru. Takze i kdyby keytrack mel nekde extremni nastaveni az takove, ze by to bylo poznat na par sousednich basovych tonech, stejne by byl rozdil jen v ořezání sezhora. Problémové sub frekvence by zůstaly beze změny.
to se takhle neda rict: keytrackovat se da obecne cokoliv (treba... rychlost LFO neprimo umerne vysce tonu), nesouvisi to s lowpass filtrem (i kdyz je mozny, ze architektura konkretniho synthu je timhle zpusobem omezena).

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biscuit
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Příspěvek od biscuit » 24 bře 2008 19:16

bassline píše:peteness: ja som nehovoril o ziadnych subbasach...ked mas nastaveny konstantny cutoff, basa ti na roznych tonoch nebasuje rovnako. A prave keytrackingom filtru sa da nastavit cutoff tak, aby sa rovnomerne posuval s kazdou vyssou notou, co ma za nasledok ze noty basuju rovnako, lebo nedochadza ku zmene harmonickych vo zvuku nastroja..
basa ti prece nebasuje na horni hranici lp filtru... to si spatne napsal. navic se hodne casto pouziva taky napr. otevirani filtru v zavislosti na velocity atd. potom uz jde stejne o nejakej vysledek souctu a rozdilu ruznejch nastaveni

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EXCOM
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Příspěvek od EXCOM » 24 bře 2008 19:58

ked uz tu o tom tak rozpravate, neexistuje nejaky graf v krivkach kde su presne znazornene rozsahy danych nastrovoj kde hraju? taka vizualna pomocka dajaka...

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Pytkin
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Příspěvek od Pytkin » 24 bře 2008 19:59

vlachy to tusim pisal v tej svojej knizke ..

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bassline
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Příspěvek od bassline » 24 bře 2008 21:01

biscuit píše:basa ti prece nebasuje na horni hranici lp filtru... to si spatne napsal.
ide o to ako mas nastaveny cutoff a ake noty hrajes...ak mas konstantny cutoff na nizkej urovni, vyssie noty zacnu slabnut...a este ked nastavis nejaku rezonanciu, tak urcite noty budu hucat, pretoze na kazdej vyskovo rozdielnej note sa zvyraznia pri konstantnom cutoffe ine harmonicke...cele to ma za nasledok ze basa na niektorych tonoch bude slaba a na niektorych hucat...

samozrejme sa bavime o LP filtri

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Pytkin
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Příspěvek od Pytkin » 24 bře 2008 21:18

basline : no ved preto sa cutoff vacsinou riadi aj od klavesnice .. parameter keyboard alebo key follow ..

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bassline
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Příspěvek od bassline » 24 bře 2008 21:41

pytkin: ved o tom hovorim :) ...ze keyboard tracking/follow/scaling sa pouziva na to aby zvuk znel rovnomerne

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Pytkin
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Příspěvek od Pytkin » 24 bře 2008 21:46

bassline : potom nezostava nic ine , len s tebou suhlasit ..

Ma pravdu predsedo ! Ma pravdu !

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fova
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Příspěvek od fova » 24 bře 2008 22:09

EXCOM píše:ked uz tu o tom tak rozpravate, neexistuje nejaky graf v krivkach kde su presne znazornene rozsahy danych nastrovoj kde hraju? taka vizualna pomocka dajaka...
Treba tady:

http://www.listenhear.co.uk/general_acoustics.htm

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug01/i ... b244c31dc8
Naposledy upravil(a) fova dne 24 bře 2008 22:37, celkem upraveno 1 x.

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fova
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Příspěvek od fova » 24 bře 2008 22:13

Tohle se take hodi:

Silas Holmes Silas Holmes is offline
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To understand EQ and its intricacies you need hands-on experience, but to help you get started, here's a table of general uses and the different ranges that EQ can affect. As every sound is different, though, these are necessarily very general guidelines...

Kick Drum

Any apparent muddiness can be rolled off around 300Hz. Try a small boost around 5-7kHz to add some high end.

50-100Hz ~ Adds bottom to the sound
100-250Hz ~ Adds roundness
250-800Hz ~ Muddiness Area
5-8kHz ~ Adds high end prescence
8-12kHz ~ Adds Hiss

Snare

Try a small boost around 60-120Hz if the sound is a little too wimpy. Try boosting around 6kHz for that 'snappy' sound.

100-250Hz ~ Fills out the sound
6-8kHz ~ Adds prescence

Hi hats or cymbals

Any apparent muddiness can be rolled off around 300Hz. To add some brightness try a small boost around 3kHz.

250-800Hz ~ Muddiness area
1-6kHz ~ Adds presence
6-8kHz ~ Adds clarity
8-12kHz ~ Adds brightness

Bass

Try boosting around 60Hz to add more body. Any apparent muddiness can be rolled off around 300Hz.If more presence is needed, boost around 6kHz.

50-100Hz ~ Adds bottom end
100-250Hz ~ Adds roundness
250-800Hz ~ Muddiness Area
800-1kHz ~ Adds beef to small speakers
1-6kHz ~ Adds presence
6-8kHz ~ Adds high-end presence
8-12kHz ~ Adds hiss

Vocals

This is a difficult one, as it depends on the mic used to record the vocal. However...Apply either cut or boost around 300hz, depending on the mic and song.Apply a very small boost around 6kHz to add some clarity.

100-250Hz ~ Adds 'up-frontness'
250-800Hz ~ Muddiness area
1-6kHz ~ Adds presence
6-8kHz ~ Adds sibilance and clarity
8-12kHz ~ Adds brightness

Piano

Any apparent muddiness can be rolled off around 300Hz. Apply a very small boost around 6kHz to add some clarity.

50-100Hz ~ Adds bottom
100-250Hz ~ Adds roundness
250-1kHz ~ Muddiness area
1-6kHz ~ Adds presence
6-8Khz ~ Adds clarity
8-12kHz ~ Adds hiss

Electric guitars

Again this depends on the mix and the recording. Apply either cut or boost around 300hz, depending on the song and sound. Try boosting around 3kHz to add some edge to the sound, or cut to add some transparency. Try boosting around 6kHz to add presence. Try boosting around 10kHz to add brightness.

100-250Hz ~ Adds body
250-800Hz ~ Muddiness area
1-6Khz ~ Cuts through the mix
6-8kHz ~ Adds clarity
8=12kHz ~ Adds hiss

Acoustic guitar

Any apparent muddiness can be rolled off between 100-300Hz. Apply small amounts of cut around 1-3kHz to push the image higher. Apply small amounts of boost around 5kHz to add some presence.

100-250Hz ~ Adds body
6-8kHz ~ Adds clarity
8-12kHz ~ Adds brightness

Strings

These depend entirely on the mix and the sound used.

50-100Hz ~ Adds bottom end
100-250Hz ~ Adds body
250-800Hz ~ Muddiness area
1-6hHz ~ Sounds crunchy
6-8kHz ~ Adds clarity
8-12kHz ~ Adds brightness

Silas Holmes Silas Holmes is offline
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__________

50Hz

1. Increase to add more fullness to lowest frequency instruments like foot, toms, and the bass.
2. Reduce to decrease the "boom" of the bass and will increase overtones and the recognition of bass line in the mix. This is most often used on bass lines in Rap and R&B.
__________

100Hz

Increase to add a harder bass sound to lowest frequency instruments.
Increase to add fullness to guitars, snare.
Increase to add warmth to piano and horns.
Reduce to remove boom on guitars & increase clarity.
__________

200Hz

1. Increase to add fullness to vocals.
2. Increase to add fullness to snare and guitar (harder sound).
3. Reduce to decrease muddiness of vocals or mid-range instruments.
4. Reduce to decrease gong sound of cymbals.
__________

400Hz

1. Increase to add clarity to bass lines especially when speakers are at low volume.
2. Reduce to decrease "cardboard" sound of lower drums (foot and toms).
3. Reduce to decrease ambiance on cymbals.
__________

800Hz

1. Increase for clarity and "punch" of bass.
2. Reduce to remove "cheap" sound of guitars
__________

1.5KHz

1. Increase for "clarity" and "pluck" of bass.
2. Reduce to remove dullness of guitars.
__________

3KHz

1. Increase for more "pluck" of bass.
2. Increase for more attack of electric / acoustic guitar.
3. Increase for more attack on low piano parts.
4. Increase for more clarity / hardness on voice.
5. Reduce to increase breathy, soft sound on background vocals.
6. Reduce to disguise out-of-tune vocals / guitars
__________

5KHz

1. Increase for vocal presence.
2. Increase low frequency drum attack (foot/toms).
3. Increase for more "finger sound" on bass.
4. Increase attack of piano, acoustic guitar and brightness on guitars.
5. Reduce to make background parts more distant.
6. Reduce to soften "thin" guitar.
__________

7KHz

1. Increase to add attack on low frequency drums (more metallic sound).
2. Increase to add attack to percussion instruments.
3. Increase on dull singer.
4. Increase for more "finger sound" on acoustic bass.
5. Reduce to decrease "s" sound on singers.
6. Increase to add sharpness to synthesizers, rock guitars, acoustic guitar and piano.
__________

10KHz

1. Increase to brighten vocals.
2. Increase for "light brightness" in acoustic guitar and piano.
3. Increase for hardness on cymbals.
4. Reduce to decrease "s" sound on singers.
__________

15KHz

1. Increase to brighten vocals (breath sound).
2. Increase to brighten cymbals, string instruments and flutes.
3. Increase to make sampled synthesizer sound more real.

__________

Silas Holmes Silas Holmes is offline
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Low Bass: anything less than 50Hz

This range is often known as the sub bass and is most commonly taken up by the lowest part of the kick drum and bass guitar, although at these frequencies it's almost impossible to determine any pitch. Sub bass is one of the reasons why 12" vinyl became available: low frequencies require wider grooves than high frequencies - without rolling off everything below 50Hz you couldn't fit a full track onto a 7" vinyl record. However we do NOT recommend applying any form of boost around this area without the use of very high quality studio monitors (not home monitors - there is a vast difference between home nearfield and studio farfield monitors costing anywhere between £5,000 and £20,000). Boosting blindly in this area without a valid reference point can and will permanently damage most speakers, even PA systems. You have been warned!

Bass: 50-250Hz

This is the range you're adjusting when applying the bass boost on most home stereos, although most bass signals in modern music tracks lie around the 90-200Hz area with a small boost in the upper ranges to add some presence or clarity.

Muddiness/irritational area: 200-800Hz

The main culprit area for muddy sounding mixes, hence the term 'irritational area'. Most frequencies around here can cause psycho-acoustic problems: if too many sounds in a mix are dominating this area, a track can quickly become annoying, resulting in a rush to finish mixing it as you get bored or irritated by the sound of it.

Mid-range: 800-6kHz

Human hearing is extremely sensitive at these frequencies, and even a minute boost around here will result in a huge change in the sound - almost the same as if you boosted around 10db at any other range. This is because our voices are centred in this area, so it's the frequency range we hear more than any other. Most telephones work at 3kHz, because at this frequency speech is most intelligible. This frequency also covers TV stations, radio, and electric power tools. If you have to apply any boosting in this area, be very cautious, especially on vocals. We're particularly sensitive to how the human voice sounds and its frequency coverage.

High Range: 6-8kHz

This is the range you adjust when applying the treble boost on your home stereo. This area is slightly boosted to make sounds artificially brighter (although this artificial boost is what we now call 'lifelike') when mastering a track before burning it to CD.

Hi-High Range: 8-20kHz

This area is taken up by the higher frequencies of cymbals and hi-hats, but boosting around this range, particularly around 12kHz can make a recording sound more high quality than it actually is, and it's a technique commonly used by the recording industry to fool people into thinking that certain CDs are more hi-fidelity than they'd otherwise sound. However, boosting in this area also requires a lot of care - it can easily pronounce any background hiss, and using too much will result in a mix becoming irritating.

Je to odsud:

http://www.futureproducers.com/forums/s ... adid=29861

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fova
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Příspěvek od fova » 24 bře 2008 22:29

Ze stejneho tematu je i tohle:

TECHNINE TECHNINE is offline
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Okay when thinking about mixing and EQ never lose sight of the purpose--which is to create an intelligible mix with clarity and power. Myself I have an approach that may be a little bit more radical but has served me fairly well.

First off I'm a big believer in using shelf filters to nip and tuck sounds. I use a LOT of high pass filtering to roll off bass frequencies on almost every instrument. For all practical purposes I filter everything in some way or another.

I usually run a high pass filter to eliminate anything below 100hz on guitar, snare, toms and so forth. For cymbals I usually start the cutoff around 500hz. Vocals about 150hz or so. The reason I do this is I only want the bass and kick drum occupying the space below 100hz to allow for a powerful, yet uncluttered, low end.

Suprisingly this technique works really good for getting that low end down. When I am done with a mix I usually run another highpass filter over the whole mix around 55-60hz to eliminate a lot of frequencies that you can't really hear or feel--and aren't reproduced on most stereo systems. This low end mush can really sap a power amp and speaker of its ability to pump. Once cleaned up it is amazing how punchy your tracks will be, without any apparent loss of low end.

I do a similar thing with a low pass filter on most of the instruments as well to eliminate any extraneous high frequences. I usually start rolling off guitar around 8khz gently, the kick drum around 6khz, toms around 10khz and snare around 12khz. The only things I want to inhabit the area above 10khz are cymbals, high hats--and most importantly--the "air" of the vocals.

It is amazing how much vocals can cut thru a mix and still keeping a high sheen on the overall mix using this method. Your seperation is often enhanced as well. And you don't have to resort to awful harmonic exciters like BBE and Aphex... which are usually poorly used and can sound very sour to me.

After I have filtered my frequencies I actually begin to EQ things. Now I have a few rules of my own when it comes to using EQ that keep things under control. Once again, these are just guideline rules that I occasionally break but I have found that they are applicable for me 90% of the time:

1.) Always use a parametric EQ. Graphic EQ's are for wusses.

2.) When boosting Q must be wider (less than) than 2.

3.) When cutting Q should be narrow--from 1.5 or greater.

4.) No cut or boost may be greater than 6db +/- in any case (occasionally broken for cutting).

5.) 75% of my boosts are less than 2 db. 90% are less than 4 db of boost.

6.) Never cut more than 8db of anything unless notching out specific small frequencies.

7.) It is okay to occaionally "pile on" a wide Q boost or cut with another narrower boost/cut if you need a radical increase in that particular frequency (this makes it sound more natural and less like a resonant peak).

Okay, when I am using EQ--which I admit I do a lot of *subtle* EQing--I always aim at doing one of two things:

1.) Remove the 'bad' qualities of the sound such as rattles, hums, hiss, muddy frequency areas and so on.

2.) If there are no bad qualities that need to go, then accentuate the positive elements.

After I have taken care of those problems I then move on to actually mixing the instruments together. I always ask myself "where does this particular track live?" and aim towards cutting other tracks that intrude on that area by a few db's. The idea is to cut away parts of interfering signals to allow certain instruments to shine in particular bandwidths. This is my general schema (these are relative and only guidelines--individual mixes/use may vary):

80hz - rumble of the bass
100hz - thump of the kick
200hz - bottom of the guitar
250hz - warmth of the vocal
350hz - bang of the snare
400hz - body of the bass
500hz - clang of the high hat
600hz - clang of the cymbals
800hz - ping of ride cymbal
1000hz - meat of the guitar
1200hz - body of the snare
1400hz - meat of the vocal
1600hz - snap of the kick/plectrum on guitar (attack)
2500hz - wires and snap of snare
3000hz - presence of the vocal
4000hz - ring of ride cymbal/top end of bass guitar
6000hz - sizzle of the high hat
7000hz - sizzle of the cymbals
8000hz - top end of the kick
9000hz - brightness on snare and cymbals
10000hz - brightness on vocal
12000hz - air on vocal
14000hz - air on cymbals

Generally I want each listed element to be the "star" of that particular frequency range--anything that is near that range that is stealing the thunder of the instrument gets a gentle 1-3db cut across a fairly wide bandwidth. For example, almost universally you have to cut guitar at 3khz to make room for the vocal--especially at high gain settings with tons of harmonics. Lower the guitar a bit in that region and POP... the vocals come out.

I realize my method is a LONG one that takes some time, but results in superior mixes for me. I like to feel that the entire frequency spectrum is represented by something unique in each area to allow the full instrumentation to shine through. I also make ample use of panning to get clarity and seperation and sometimes take that into consideration--especially when two elements are in the same frequency band. It is good to have one or both panned differently from one another. A perfect example is the ride cymbal and top end of the bass: the bass will be coming at you down the center and the ride cymbal should be off a ways R or L--thus avoiding conflict.

Hopefully this helps. I didn't give away too many of my good secrets.

TECHNINE TECHNINE is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sabane
I still have one last thing i'm still foggy about and that is the levels. I'm unsure as to where the levels of each instrument should be. Say If I start with the kick and bass. Should the levels of those instruments be cranked as high as I can get them then add compression for the peaks? or keep it at medium level and work that way? I'm not trying to master or anything just get a average sound level and not have it be too quiet. Hope it makes sense what i'm trying to ask...probably not

Every mix is different music wise as is every genre, but here are some "defaults" to get you pointed in the right direction. Note that this is where the solo'd signal level should be peaking at and all of these are negative values because I assume you are mixing on digital gear.

Snare: -2db
Kick: -3db
Toms: -3db to -5db depending on the use
Overheads: -6db
Room mics: -6 to -2db depending on amount of ambience
Bass guitar: -4 to -6db
Guitar: -4db to -2db (the louder the more 'metal' you sound imho)
Vocals: -1db to -0.5db
Foreground synth parts: -3 to -2db
Background synth parts: -6db to -8db
Backing vocals: -4db to -3db
Ambient sound effects/samples: -7db to -9db

Keep in mind that issue with levels is often an issue with EQ and panning amounts. Use EQ and panning to create seperation.

For example: I usually pan backing vocals in pairs off to each side and have the main vocal down the middle. Sometimes I will slightly pan the main vocal a bit to one side and pan the backing vocal to the opposite side fairly far out. Tricks like that will increase your seperation and help with those pesky level difficulties.

A little tip I use for myself is to inch the kick drum up a fraction of a db from where I think it should be and move the snare down a fraction of a db from where I think it should be. Usually ends up sounding more mixed that way.

Be careful with overheads--they can junk up your mix if they are too loud. I *NEVER* use compression on my overheads to contain this problem even more. Depends though, some guys use compression to 'gate' the cymbals but I don't like that sound.

Oh, I always compress FIRST then mix. I see where I have to adjust the fader to get my kick to hit at a fairly level -3db. Sometimes compression can really change the dynamics of a sound (well... duh!) so I make sure to solo it before setting the volume fader. I compress first to also control the tone of the drum and overall response to make sure I like it... adjusting the volume later is a much easier fix.

Jindy2
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Registrován: 26 bře 2007 21:26

Příspěvek od Jindy2 » 24 bře 2008 22:35

hmm, ten keytrack na basu se může dost hodit...je na to nějaký automatický vst fx plugin? ;)

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kexik
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Příspěvek od kexik » 25 bře 2008 19:44

Brooklyn / juanita juarez píše:
onehalph píše:Je mi jasny, ze kazda nota odpovida nejake frekvenci - jen u toho michani - kdyz nastavim EQ treba podle noty E a nastroj zahraje A, tak je stejne vsechno najednou jinak, nebo?
to je dobra pripominka.

ale to pouziti je pro me jiny..

mas treba sampl, a i kdyz by mel ladit, nejak ti neladi se zbytkem. podivas se na analyzer a zjistis, podle tabulky, ze basa je o nejaky centy flat nebo sharp - tak to doladit pitch shifterem. treba...

anebo jak sem psal, v necem, co ladi, chces treba zduraznit harmonicky nasobky nejaky noty. k tomu, ze je to staticke - to je fakt. ale kdybyste opravdu chteli, EQ muzete automatizovat! nebo v sampleru toho stejneho docilit keytrackingem. (keytracking je podle me dost podcenovany obecne!)
ja davam na hodne modulovane basy autotune. velmi zaujimavo posobi ze nezabere na tranzient, len na telo basy... ale hlavne clovek nemusi mat tabulku s frekvenciami :)

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